Ep. 32- Women of Color in Tech with Susanne Tedrick

Speaker 1:

Welcome to Digital First Leadership. The podcast that focuses on helping leaders and teams understand how to master the language of social media in today's digital first world. 

Richard Bliss: 

Welcome to the show. I'm your host, Richard Bliss, and you're listening to Digital First Leadership. The podcast that focuses on how we build and become leaders in the digital world. My guest today is someone I'm really thrilled to have. All my guests are special, but this one's more special than the others. And I do, Susanne, I do say that to everybody, just so we're clear. 

Richard Bliss: 

I'm joined by Susanne Tedrick. Susanne Tedrick is a technical trainer in the tech industry, very large company that she works for. She's the author though, of Women of Color in Tech and the co-author of  the book coming out called Innovating for Diversity. And I'm excited to have her on the podcast because  we get to talk about some topics, a wide range of topics today. But Susanne, thank you so much for  having me here. No, thank you so much for being here. Sorry. 

Susanne Tedrick: 

Richard, it's a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited for the conversation. 

Richard Bliss: 

Oh my gosh. I've been a guest on a lot of podcasts recently and I just forgot that I'm the host. It's my  show. So thank you for being here. Let's talk a little bit about your books. You've got two books, the one  that came out two years ago, April of 2020, right at the beginning of the pandemic, women in tech in  color ... No, Women of Color in Tech. I'm struggling today. 

Susanne Tedrick: 

No worries. 

Richard Bliss: 

And then the one that's coming out in April of 2023, Innovating Diversity. So talk to us about Women of  Color in Tech, because I'm fascinated by this topic. I'm here in Silicon Valley, I work with a lot of tech  companies and I've had the opportunity of working with a lot of women in tech, some of them pioneers  in the industry. And so I'm fascinated on your take of what the book was about and how important it  was you feel in today's world. 

Susanne Tedrick: 

So Women of Color in Tech I wrote in the end of 2019, and you're right, right at the height of the  pandemic it came out, but it's meant to inform and inspire women of color to pursue tech careers. And  it is largely based on my own transition into technology after having spent many years working in  administrative and operations type roles in financial services. 

Susanne Tedrick:

The book serves a number of different purposes. It kind of paints the picture of what a technology  career is beyond just what you hear about with software development or network engineering, but  really painting that fuller picture so that women of color can see the different options that are available  based on their work beliefs, their work values, the things that really inspire them. How do you get ready  for those careers? Not just from a technical skills perspective, but a professional skill perspective,  building those communication skills, getting mentors and sponsors. 

Susanne Tedrick: 

So really talking about a really holistic view on how women of color would prepare for these careers and  then talking very candidly about some of the challenges that they tend to face that have been talked  about quite a bit. So talking about microaggressions and bias, but also talking about some that perhaps  get some surface level attention like the mental health and making sure that their mental health is okay,  making sure that they understand what imposter syndrome is and that they're not being their own  worst enemy in their minds. 

Susanne Tedrick: 

So really just trying to provide the knowledge that I learned on this transition, the good, the bad, the  ugly and everything in between so that more one of color are in the industry, which is something that I  am advocating for all the time. 

Richard Bliss: 

Are you seeing that the vestiges is having success across the board? You're relatively young and here  you are in tech, you work for a very large well-known tech company, you've made that transition. Are  we seeing some of these barriers breaking down and more and more women of color finding a career in  the tech industry? 

Susanne Tedrick: 

Definitely. So when I first started writing Women of Color in Tech, I was noticing a pattern from  research. The Kapor Center actually came out with what was called the Tech Leavers study, which was  looking at the negative migration of women of color from tech positions. And I'm happy to say in the last  couple of years, that's changed, we're starting to see more women of color, not just in positions within  tech companies. That's not the same as a tech position. 

Richard Bliss: 

Absolutely. 

Susanne Tedrick: 

So there is a distinction between the two. So that they have autonomy over their career, there's growth  and what have you, versus I happen to be a person that works at a tech company in a non-tech role.  Those are two very different things. 

Susanne Tedrick: 

What I'm noticing more now is that there still seems to be a challenge from taking people coming in at  an entry level or early career level in their tech career and really growing them into that next step. So what does it look like to be a leader in their particular profession? What does growth mean for their  position? 

Susanne Tedrick: 

And the research is pointing to that while yes, we're doing a great job of bringing women of color and  people of color into technology jobs, we're kind of doing them a disservice in that we're not talking  about, well, how do we sustain their careers? How do we grow them to whatever they're going to be in  our organizations? So I think that's the part that we're kind of missing now. 

Richard Bliss: 

Yeah. I have to agree because as I'm listening to you, and I'm trying to think that why in the world would  a young woman want to pursue a career in an industry that traditionally is so dominated by one set,  what would inspire them to actually take the steps to fight that uphill battle? Because it's going to be an  ... So as you're saying, there's still a battle, but what possibly would inspire them to do that? 

Richard Bliss: 

Why don't they just like, "You know what, I don't need that. I'm going to go do something else." I mean,  I was a history major and people are like, why did you major in history? Because it was easy. I mean, I'll  be open because it was ... it wasn't necessarily. But I got to ask you, why in the world should a young  woman even think about this career when she's looking at such daunting challenges to step into it?  Challenges that other peers would not experience because of their gender or because of their race. 

Susanne Tedrick: 

It's a fair question. And it's a question I asked myself a lot when I [inaudible 00:07:22]. When I think  about, especially when I see certain statistics and I see certain things happen, I'm like, why? Why on  earth would I keep advocating and always being this cheerleader for coming into the tech industry? 

Susanne Tedrick: 

So money aside, compensation aside, it's one of the few industries where there's lots of opportunity and  the barriers for entry are not as significant as perhaps some other male dominated fields. You can enter  into the tech industry without necessarily having a four-year degree. I will say that employers need to do  a better job of lifting that requirement all the time, because sometimes it's more prohibitive of getting  top talent 

Richard Bliss: 

Because you and I ... Sorry to interrupt, you and I both know that four year college degree requirement,  you're right. I hadn't thought about it. Nobody cares. They honestly 

Susanne Tedrick: 

Not in tech. 

Richard Bliss: 

Not in tech, nobody cares. 

Susanne Tedrick:

Not in tech. 

Richard Bliss: 

And yet, as you're just saying, it becomes a mental barrier because a young woman looks at that and  says, "Oh, well, I'm not quite there," or "I had to drop out," or ... I'm a college dropout. I didn't graduate.  And yet, now as you're saying that, I'm like, oh wow, nobody ever asked me. Nobody ever cared. 

Susanne Tedrick: 

I mean, for full disclosure, I did go to school. I did go to Northwestern University and I'm attending to get  an MBA. But that being said, those are more so things for my personal development versus I need it to  advance in my career, because that's not always true. That's not always true. It's like, do you have this  skill? Do you have the demonstrable skill to do your job? Which is what tech mostly cares about. Do you  have the skills to do your job? And it's one of those few fields that you can do that, you can break in  without having that traditional degree or having it from a very, very expensive school. 

Susanne Tedrick: 

The second is that those opportunities, you're kind of limited by your imagination as to what you can do.  So prior to becoming a technical trainer, I was a technical specialist talking about cloud computing, but  applying that to major sports teams and leagues. And the use cases and the problems that you can solve  with technology are just limitless. It's just more about, do you have the time and the inclination to really  think these things out? And very few jobs allow you to have that type of creativity, utilizing technology  in a way that is meaningful for a grand number of people. 

Susanne Tedrick: 

It's not something that you can find in financial services very easily. It's like with the financial service, it's  like, here's your money. 

Richard Bliss: 

Well, and then the restrictions and the ... and now 

Susanne Tedrick: 

Exactly. 

Richard Bliss: 

... you've gone to the complete opposite of, it's not merit based there. It's like, can you follow the rules,  stay within the rules, and don't get us into trouble type [inaudible 00:10:28]. 

Susanne Tedrick: 

Yeah. And granted, for that industry, you need those controls in place. You do. You can't just go willy nilly, but ... 

Richard Bliss:

But in tech, I mean, you're right. You can pursue a passion like you have where you're there, you say,  "I'm interested in this. I'm going to push through these challenges. I'm going to push through these  barriers and I'm going to make something." So I can see how that would work. 

Richard Bliss: 

So your book then, you've got another one that's coming out, which takes a slightly different approach  to this. And that is Innovating for Diversity, because now it sounds like, because I haven't read the  manuscript, you're going from the individual to the organization. Is that fairly accurate in the next shift? 

Susanne Tedrick: 

That is. That's fairly accurate. I noticed that in the time that I wrote Women of Color in Tech and having  conversations with readers and leaders in different parts of organizations, I realize that for all the good  that I can do in mentoring people and teaching people skills and what have you, there still needs to be  

change that happens at the organizational level, and especially with top leadership when it comes to  diversity, equity and inclusion, we can get the workforce developed. We can get the workforce ready,  but if we're not creating organizations that are inclusive or where they're offering equitable  opportunities for everybody, and everybody has this feeling that they belong in their respective  organizations, anything that I tell a mentee is really, it's a kind of one sided. 

Susanne Tedrick: 

And so with Innovating for Diversity, we're really taking a look at, well, what has traditionally not worked  with DEI programs? And where myself and my co-author Bertina Ceccarelli, where we have seen  companies use innovation principles in order to institute lasting change within their organizations. 

Richard Bliss: 

It's encouraging to see so many companies, organizations taking these steps. Now, in some cases they're  small steps and in some cases they're false steps, meaning that they try it, it doesn't work out, it kind of  peters out and then a new initiative is pushed. So, false. Not that there wasn't any intent there to do  good, but sometimes it doesn't have the full follow through. 

Richard Bliss: 

And again, I'll come back to kind of the same question. Do you see hope? Are organizations making  these changes to the point where we're seeing that progress happen? Is the book a positive look, here's  some companies that are doing it? Or man, we have so much further to go? Or is it a blend of both? 

Susanne Tedrick: 

It's a blend of both. I mean, we can't talk about all of the successes and the good feelings and everything  without being candid about what isn't working. For example, using DEI more as a marketing push for  talent versus this is part of our culture or leaving DEI strictly to a siloed monolithic department versus  embedding it in everything that you do. 

Susanne Tedrick: 

We have to talk about that. But we're also hopeful that by talking about the case studies and the  companies that we cite, like, hey, they went through it too. They went through some hard times. They  didn't always get it right. There were some missteps and better ifs, but they're doing it. They're committing to the process of getting better and realizing that it's for their benefit as an organization to  invest this time and energy into. 

Susanne Tedrick: 

So hopefully it's serving as a symbol of hope for other organizations that are really stymied about, "This  is just too much and I'm worried I'm going to get it wrong. I'm not going to have the impact that I want."  Really, it's just to give more of a guiding light towards those companies that it is possible. 

Richard Bliss: 

As a parting piece of advice, what advice would you give then to an organization and to an individual  within that organization, how they can affect this change? Because I have to believe that you have to  have some people step up. It can't just be a committee and you've got to have some champions step up,  but then you have to have the organization being prepared to do that. So what advice do we give to  those two sides of it? The champions or the participants and the organization itself? 

Susanne Tedrick: 

That's a great question. I'll try to see if I can sum it up to one thing in particular. For the individuals,  holding leaders accountable for change, making it vocal that change is needed, what needs to happen,  the change that they like to see. So it's really a matter of keeping the leadership accountable for the  change. 

Richard Bliss: 

Can I 

Susanne Tedrick: 

So if they're ... Oh, go ahead. Yes? 

Richard Bliss: 

Can I ask, when you say change, what are we primarily talking about? Are we talking about a hiring  ratio? What are we talking about here when you say change? 

Susanne Tedrick: 

Well, that's going to be dependent on the organization. So no organization's DEI efforts and strategies  and initiatives are going to match another's. They're going to be focusing on different things depending  on their size and a number of other factors. When I say holding people accountable for change, thinking  back towards the civil unrest because of the murder of George Floyd, many companies made many  proclamations as to what they were going to do in the face of that. 

Susanne Tedrick: 

So when your leadership is saying, we are going to commit X dollars, or we are going to commit towards  these initiatives, it's imperative that the rest of the organization hold our leaders accountable to the  messages that they're putting out there. So if you're telling me that you're going to commit a million  dollars towards improving recruiting efforts, towards diverse audiences, I'm going to want to see proof  of this.

Susanne Tedrick: 

I don't necessarily need the actual invoices or receipts, but I need to know what have you tangibly done  towards this goal? And you need to communicate that to me 

Richard Bliss: 

Got it. 

Susanne Tedrick: 

... since you communicated it to me so broadly. So as an employee of your organization, I am owed that  explanation because you publicly put it out there and I am a representative of that organization. 

Richard Bliss: 

Well, I like what you've said, because you've done a good job of summing it up. And that is the  organization needs to take stands, publicly announce it, say, "This is what we're going to do." The  individuals need to hold the organization, step up and make sure that it's just not words. And then  somehow come together, the two of them to find that way to implement that change and make sure  that it's not just some other department's real role, some other person's job, but that all of us take the  ownership to stand up and say, "Look, this is the changes that need to happen." 

Susanne Tedrick: 

Absolutely. Everyone's got to take ownership when it comes to DEI. It's not just the chief diversity officer  who, by the way, according to a lot of research, the chief diversity officer's tenure is less than three  years because they're so burnt out. They're so burnt out in carrying the gift and the burden of doing this  important job. And that's not fair. That's not fair on them. It's everybody's responsibility for  implementing DEI, regardless of where you happen to be in the organization. 

Richard Bliss: 

This has been very helpful, Susanne. I certainly appreciate you taking the time to join me to talk about  this topic. We can't talk about it too much. We keep making progress. So thank you very much for  enlightening me and the audience with the work that you're doing. 

Susanne Tedrick: 

My pleasure. I'm a huge DEI advocate. I'm also learning every day too, to be better. 

Richard Bliss: 

I think we all are. And so we're all on that side of it. So for those of you who are listening, who would like  to find out more information about Susanne, a couple of places you can find her. One, you can go to  Amazon. Her name is spelled S-U-S-A-N-N-E, Susanne Tedrick, T-E-D-R-I-C-K. And you can go put into  Amazon, up will come her book, Women of Color in Tech. 

Richard Bliss: 

You can also go to her website, spelled the same thing, Susannetedrick.com to find all kinds of  information, have her speak and have her ... learn more about her upcoming book as well as all of the  efforts that she's putting into the DEI initiative. So Susanne, thank you so much for joining us.

Susanne Tedrick: 

Richard, thank you. It's been a pleasure. 

Richard Bliss: 

You've been listening to Digital First Leadership. My guest has been Susanne Kendrick I'm Richard Bliss,  your host. And thank you again for listening. We appreciate particularly the feedback that I received  from so many of you who are listening who reach out through LinkedIn and variety of other topics,  expressing your appreciation of this show and the guests that I have on. So thank you so much for doing  that. I look forward to continuing to hear from you. Take care. 

Speaker 1: 

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