On this episode of Digital-First Leadership, host Richard Bliss welcomes award-winning Corporate Communications and Marketing Innovator, Dan Nestle. Dan emphasizes the importance of companies becoming a publisher and being able to tell their own stories, as traditional PR methods of getting media coverage are becoming less effective and costly. By focusing on publishing their own stories through owned media channels, companies can gain more validity and attract interest from others. Dan and Richard have known each other for a while and recently met in person while working together on a book called "The Most Amazing Marketing Book Ever." Dan leads communications for a Japanese manufacturing and retail company in North America and hosts a biweekly podcast called "The Dan Nestle Show." Tune in to this episode of Digital-First Leadership to learn more about the power of becoming a publisher, crisis management, fostering trust, and the intersection of technology and communication.
Dan wrote chapter 26 of The Best Marketing Book Ever called Strategic Communications: Trust Can Be Your Competitive Advantage
Host: Richard Bliss
Guest: Dan Nestle
The Dan Nestle Show Podcast is available here, and anywhere you listen to podcasts.
Purchase The Most Amazing Marketing Book Ever
Podcast Manager: Kimberly Smith
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Hi, welcome to the show. I'm your host Richard Bliss. Today, my guest is somebody that I have known – known is such an interesting word today – but he and I have known each other for a little while and had the opportunity of actually meeting in real life for the first time just recently. My guest is Dan Nestle. Now Dan and I co-worked on a book that was driven by Mark Schaeffer called The Most Amazing Marketing Book Ever. Yeah. There we go. We got it right here.
Got it right?
Dan, thank you very much for joining me.
Oh, it's my pleasure, Richard. Thanks so much for having me.
Now I'm gonna read your – just so I can let the audience know who you are. I'm gonna go ahead and read what it says in the book at the end of your chapter to kinda get an idea about who you are. Hang on. Let me grab some reading glasses. And since this is video, people can see. Alright. Got the double. Dan Nestle, an award winning Corporate Communications and Marketing Innovator leads communications in North America for a Japanese manufacturing and retail company. A true believer in curiosity in the power of conversation. Dan hosts a biweekly podcast, The Dan Nestle Show, available at dan nestle dot com or wherever you listen to podcasts. He speaks Japanese.
Which is which which is pretty cool.
Yeah. It's it's gotten meat places.
I imagine this. My extensive Japanese comes from sticks.
Oh, Domo already got the mister Robato.
Yep. That's exactly it.
That's class classic line.
When that song came out, my neighbor was Japanese. And so being a young man, I went over there, and we asked her, what does it say? And she just she's like, it doesn't really say anything.
My my wife, who is Japanese, when I first played that song for her, cringe is probably a very --
-- mild word. Yeah. It's a describe her reaction. Just a lot of, a lot of forehead forehead smashes.
Like, why? Right? Like, why? I mean, that’s. Anyway, that's a whole side side topic. We're gonna talk today because you and I participated in this initiative, this The Most Amazing Marketing Book Ever. I had a chapter. You had a chapter. Your chapter was Strategic Communications, Trust Can Be Your Competitive Advantage -- Right. -- which is why I wanted you on the show to talk about this. But you had a much more outsized role in this rather than just writing a chapter. Isn't that correct?
True. True. I'll say this because it's been said in many public venues, and I'm not I'm know, people who know me know I'm a little bit reluctant to always say this. But, actually, the book was kind of my idea. You know, I I was talking to Mark, and And we I said, yeah. We have all these great people…
And he has given you credit for this.
Yeah. I know. That's why -- Yeah. -- that's why I'm happy to talk about it. But, like, I said, yeah. We have all these great people. Why don't we put them together and, like, do something elaborate of, like, a book. But you gotta understand also Mark Schaeffer was thinking about this already. Like, it's it it's just the kind of thing. It's not the kind of thing where, oh my gosh. Never thought of that before. I you know, I've just I think I validated. I helped validate some of his thinking on it, and that gave him some more confidence to put his efforts behind it. But once we were once we started going and we were off the races and you know, being that it would require a lot of work, he just wanted to know that we would we'd be able to get enough people together to shoulder the burden And it was not a I mean, that was one of the most surprising things is people were so ready to raise their hand and do work. Because it gets it's not your job. Right?
It's -- Right. So let's tell let's tell the audience what we're talking about. So there is a community. Mark Shaffer set it up through cryptocurrency originally. But it extended now, moved over to Discord. It's called the RISE community. You're a member. I'm a member. You were, I think, one of the founding members early on.
Early on. Yep.
Got early on, early people. And what happened then is in that community, it was suggested by you and Mark that people come together with their expertise and create, co-create a book around the marketing topics. 36 authors stepped up, right, or 35. I mean, it it was about thinking yeah.
Like, 34 people because a couple of people wrote couple of chapters. 2 chapters.
Yeah. And it and we collectively collaborated on this to produce this book. And so that's kinda where that came from. It's now out on Amazon. It's on Audible. The Audible version is cool. I've really enjoyed it.
I think it's a first. Like, I I don't, like, there isn’t any other book like it. And, you know, you wanna tell them why? Tell everybody why?
Because there's 36 individuals, or 34 whatever, all of the authors read their own chapter. And so I've gone through in Audible and just skip from chapter to chapter to hear the opening introductions from all the different accents from all over the world, all the different topics, the coverage. It has been a fascinating listen to hear people in their own voice. Actually, to talk to you about their idea. So it has been it has been pretty cool experience.
Dan Nestle [00:05:09]:
Yeah. It's been it is very cool. It's a it's a good experiential book. And I'll just add that the way that the book is structured, and this is one of the things that got it where that I think enabled us to get it over the line quickly, is that we decided early on that everybody had to write the same way and according to a template, And that template is the key to this book. Everybody writes an interesting topic and 10 new ideas or or or points that really aren't published in any place else or, you know, not not directly and offers 10 points related to the title of their chapter, the the subject of that chapter. Every chapter is the same pattern. You know, every everyone has has a similar voice and similar and similar style.
Richard Bliss [00:05:56]:
Similar length. Right?
They're all at length. Under 1500 words.
Everyone 10 points. When Mark asked me to participate, I didn't read the template. And so --
-- I just wrote, send it to him, and bless his heart. He came back and said, Richard, I love you. You got it all wrong. And so and I was up against the deadline. I was like, really? And I had a couple of days to rewrite him into the he's like, here's the template. I'm like, oh, I guess I should have read the, read the directions. Yeah. Exactly. But it's why it says on the outside, 350 ideas, because every chapter has 10 points. Your chapter was on strategic communication communication Now what sets you apart a little bit, and we talked about this earlier on, is that you're one of the few authors who actually has a corporate job -- Yeah. -- kinda doing this.
Dan Nestle [00:06:46]:
You know, I mean, I've been in corp comms now for, you know, solidly couple years, but but as part of my marketing communications career for over 20 years, being being in marketing communications, marketing NPR. You know, it's always been part of my job being an integrated kind of communicator and marketer And, you know, I don't like to draw lines between marketing and comms, but this book actually gave me an opportunity to do pretty much exactly that. Because I think a lot of marketers don't really see their colleagues in the communications department or the PR department, whatever you're gonna call it. They don't see them as having, you know, as much of a contribution to make to the business or certainly, you know, maybe they don't don't understand exactly what role the communicators can and should fulfill within either a small or large or any size organization. And and, you know, there are a lot of people that need to be communicated to. Yeah. And you need people to kind of look at that and make sure that you're furthering the brand and and the reputation same time. Yeah.
Richard Bliss [00:07:47]:
The PR function has mourned itself because PR used to stand for press release. Press release. Right? Of what I've heard of since. I mean, for for those who have been in the industry, it was like, oh, PR press release. But that has evolved and morphed to so much transformed to such a strategic part of communication. Because you have the social media communication, you have the media earned media Right? Pay community. There's all these different aspects of that. And you're focused on one of the critical aspects in today's community. And I know Mark talked about it a lot. It's such a critical component, and that is the idea of trust as a competitive advantage in today's world. You wanna talk about what kind of prompted you to write this?
Dan Nestle [00:08:19]:
So, you know, we're always talking about what you know, where you're getting value. Where where what what the brand value is, where you know, whether you quantify value in any number of ways. But the fact of the matter is that unless your brand or your or you as a person have a solid reputation, you're basically screwed in today's market, and trust has become a greater and greater and more measurable asset to you as a marketer, as I know, as a company owner. And it's more and more important now because, you know, people have lost faith in so many things. – Yeah. – They've lost they certainly don't don't don't have any faith in, you know, advertisements. They don't really necessarily have faith in pronouncements. There's a fine line between you know, what you wanna say your talking points and propaganda and depends on what your business is. Right? You can be your whole market could be distrusted, which gives you a really serious problem. So, you know, as a as a marketer and as a communicator, you have some levers that you can pull to build trust or to enhance the trust that exists in your in your company and amongst you and your stakeholders? How do you build that? How do you make that stronger? Because you know, fundamentally, if somebody doesn't trust you, what's to stop them from leaving and going to somebody else? Nothing. Right? So it's it it really factors straight into loyalty, long term customer value, everything.
Richard Bliss [00:09:51]:
I hear you. I was meeting with some clients last week, and the question was asked to one of them. Why do your customers stay with you? Because they did a leadership transfer. It was a family owned business, and it went from the father to the son. And and And he came and the sun came up with some reasons why they stayed. And and I said, the reason they stay is because they don't understand or know the risk that they're encountering if they it was a financial organization. There might be a risk, so they trust that your risk level is lower because they know it, and they don't trust the risk level they would step into for leaving. So be careful that you think that they you're you're doing a good job. It might just be that they trust you to not screw up as -- Yeah. -- right, somewhere else. Now one of the things you talk about in the trust that I wanna point out is the idea of using your employees to generate this trust. Let's talk about it. Because that's one of your points. Point number 3 -- Yeah. -- is basically activate your employee. Let's talk about that.
Dan Nestle [00:10:41]:
Well, I mean, I'd I'd I would veer away from the word using employees, first of all. You know? – Oh, good point. – You know, your your people are your people, and maybe that's point one, is is your mindset. For your employees has to be that they're not an asset or or resource anymore. Right? Your employees are actually a a big stakeholder audience for you. And whether it's 1 employee or 1000 or 5000, 10000 employees, doesn't matter. The employees know more about your brand. They know more about your products. And if they are not singing your praises or if they're not, you know, communicating about you into the marketplace, their friends and their colleagues, people that they know are gonna be like, why isn't this person ever talk about their company? Like, that's odd now. Right. And and now, you know, you can look at things like the Edelman Trust barometer and any measure of trust. And You know, people, by and large, don't trust governments. They don't trust media. They trust people like themselves. They trust businesses to a degree too, but If you trust somebody like yourself, that's more than likely gonna be an employee somewhere, not a marketing team.
Richard Bliss [00:11:45]:
And bring up an interesting point because oftentimes, employees are asked to share marketing content on their social media platforms. And it could be argued thereby eroding the trust that this is an authentic voice of content. That they're just clicking the share button. Marketing said to do it. There's some kind of gamification that's happening inside the company, so I clicked the button. But I think the point you're making here is that For example, if you're if you're recruiting, employees actively participating in the cultural benefits of working at this organization are gonna be trusted much more than any NPS score. – Absolutely.-- Right? And so that's a great way to activate your employees to share their own stories, not to simply have them pump out the marketing content across their.
Dan Nestle [00:12:25]:
Right. No. If if do have employees pump out your marketing content, that content has to be real and resonate. It has to be on purpose and on mission. You know? Like, if you are asking them to share promotions and sales, it's gonna look exactly what it is. They're sharing a promotion and sale. But if your company does something great or if your organization does something wonderful that you know is good and that you're that lives up to your values. By all means, your employees should be happy to share that, and it shouldn't deflect or reflect on the brand in anything other than a positive way because you're sharing the good that you're doing in the world. You're sharing something that's on purpose and on mission. And I I think that's the key with the kind of content that you're gonna ask your employees to share should be that that sort of, you know, that higher level, you know, far away from sales, far away from the transaction. Right? When it gets to the transactional stuff, you erode trust.
Richard Bliss [00:13:24]:
And I and I like that. And what you what I get called in to do is help train employees how to use particularly LinkedIn to tell those stories so that they don't feel like they're just being used to pump out. And so but you have to train your people because it doesn't come natural. Honestly, it doesn't come natural because my social media's mind and then when I'm at work, I'm at work, and then teaching them how to blend that, without being used by either side of the organization. I think that and that's go ahead.
Dan Nestle [00:13:52]:
And I would just say that that just to add to that, I would say that's like, lot of other things that we're seeing in marketing, you know, if your if your employees are a true audience the way that I'm sort of saying that they should be, you get you can't force them. They have to come to you. They have to accept this. They have to opt in to your what to whatever you wanna put out there. And and that's I think then you can train them and you can tell them everything, you know, that they need to do. But, look, if you have a thousand employees and only 40 of them are willing to go out there and share, then fine. You know, that's 40 great people. I mean -- Yep. -- it's a good.
So as your champions use them. – Yeah. – Well, I gotta be careful that word use. Mobilize them.
Mobilize them. Activate them. Yeah.
Activate them. I like your word. Let's talk about then point 9 that you make is -- Sure. -- earn media or make some news yourself. Now, again, this is around strategic communications and building trust. So how do you talk about earned media or make the news yourself? Because if I come across it okay. I'm just gonna make something up.
Dan Nestle [00:14:53]:
Right. Well, that's true. Right? And and let's be careful about that. I'm certainly not not saying that anybody should fake anything or make anything up. I mean, this goes all of back to to David Miron Scott, some other things that we've heard throughout the years and years, which is, you know, you you have to become a publisher in many ways. You you know, you're you as as a as a company, you are you know, you have stories to tell, so you need to be you need to be able to tell those stories. Now in the in the world of media right now, I mean, there's Nike and there's, like, these big companies, like, you know, recently some some big names like Anheuser Busch or M&M's or whatever for whatever reason, they get in the news and they get covered and they can just pick up a phone and they can for the right reason or the wrong reason, they can get it they can get a journalist to be interested in them a big company, a big financial company that's that's often making pronouncements can get journalists on the phone. The vast, vast majority of us And so, you know, it's almost kind of comparable to competing on search. Like, you you know, the big names will get the search results. Same thing with journalism, the big names will always get coverage. So traditional PR has always been about let's get the journalist to cover us. That is not it's not easy nor is economical anymore. And sometimes it's not effective. You know? One journalist covering you, you know, spend hours and hours, try to chase somebody down, get them to cover you in, you know, 2 paragraphs. It might be good vanity play, but it's not gonna do anything for your brain. – Right. – So rather than than chase that down in an environment where the news it worked so hard to make news, publish your own stories more. Lean into your own, the things that you have to talk about that you know are great. And there's so many ways to do this. Right? So you there's earned media which is, you know, getting coverage, but own the media. Use your owned media channels. Push out your own stories that are worth telling. And you know something if they are worth telling, somebody's gonna read them, somebody's gonna be interested in them. And that gives you more more, I guess, more validity when you do decide to to to meet up with a journalist or with with somebody writing a journal piece.
Richard Bliss [00:16:50]:
Because they know they know they're being used. They know you're trying to get them to tell your story for them. I have a little side story about that -- Yeah. -- because I because I believed in this for years. Several years ago, I went to a trade show as a sponsor of a within another vendor's booth. It's a huge show in Las Vegas, and we got no coverage because we're on the backside of a booth on the backside of the convention hall. Right? Somebody's gonna randomly walk by, and I spent a lot of money for that booth space. So the next year, I thought, I'm not gonna do that. So here's what I did, Dan. Got the media list from the show and sent a postcard to 800 media people. Okay? Because that's how many were coming to this international show in Las Vegas. And I put a picture of a Hummer a military grade H1 Hummer on the front of it. And I said, this year when you come to the show, don't get taken for a ride. Let me do it. You flip it over, and there's a message from me with my cell phone number. This year, don't stand in the cab line. Don't stand in the cab line. Mhmm. Call me. And I will dispatch a Hummer to come pick you up and take you anywhere you wanna go. The only cost is You have to spend 10 minutes listening to a pitch by why my company and technology is one of the most innovative technologies at the show this year. Do you know how many journalists meet up on that offer?
Dan Nestle [00:18:14]:
I really, and how long ago was this, Richard?
This was a few years ago.
A few years ago. Yeah.
Yeah. A few Years ago.
I would imagine quite a few.
Richard Bliss [00:18:21]:
Yeah. Just shy of 700 journalists. Picked, allowed, called me on my cell phone. Now what we did is we had we had 10 Hummers in Las Vegas. I had 10 drivers and my employees, and I had my EA sitting in a hotel room with 10-2 way radios and my cell phone. So the phone call would come in. The generals would say, I'm at the Bellagio. They'd be like, okay. And then she'd pick up a 2 way radio. Who's close to the Bellagio? The Hummer would swing around, pick them up, and then I had trained my employees to -- Wow. -- pitch the journalists wherever they were going. Didn't matter where they were going.
Dan Nestle [00:18:52]:
That is terrific. That's a that's a very innovative way of getting their attention. It's interesting because today, you know, there there are so many rules around them accepting gifts and and -- Right. -- so on these days. But but, actually, the the biggest issue, I think, the biggest competitor to for your own stories is their own time. – Yes. – You know, journalists just don't have time. They're the they're they're out chasing a particular story. They have to write a certain amount every day…
and they're standing in some -- They're standing -- -- stuck. Now this is before Uber. So it's been a few years. This is before Uber. – Okay. – Yeah. So we were basically Uber.
Dan Nestle [00:19:32]:
It's a great it's still a great way to get their attention and be you know, okay. They're good. They'll do this to to to listen to your pitch, and it's it's wonderful.
Richard Bliss [00:19:45]:
The tech writer for the Miami Herald wrote an article about us. And you know what it was about?
They didn't get to call and get picked up. The it was all about us them not getting to take advantage of us. And I was like, wow. I even got – Great story. – no coverage. I mean, I right. Alright. Here's the Dan, here's the last thing I wanna talk about because this this is good stuff. And that is you mentioned crisis. You're advocating crisis as a way of earning trust. Now I have had a lot of experience working for security companies and tech companies, data breaches, and I can understand that this is a key element. It's interesting way that you've approached it. Let's talk about that. Navigating crisis to earn trust.
Dan Nestle [00:20:13]:
Well I mean, crisis is part of of everybody's day-to-day risk profile. It's gonna happen at sometimes, and a crisis could be something like, you know, oh, a nuclear power plant blows up, or it could be gosh. I left my boss at the airport, you know, and now he's stranded out there, and he's ever done anything. This it's a big it's a big range. The the whole point of crisis is that I think, you know, from a marketer standpoint for the from our audience of this book, the way they're looking at it, they're probably not thinking about it very much because saying, well, if somebody in the PR team will handle it or, you know, or if I'm a solopreneur, then I'll just handle it myself because, you know, I’ll just get on the phone and talk to somebody, or or maybe I'll just hide. I don't know. But they they probably don't have, you know, a a methodology to deal with crisis. Now, In in my in in my summation here, I think, you know, the the whole idea of of crisis is is become, know what you can and cannot say, and do not be afraid to call in help when you need it. You know, you have to understand that when something crosses a legal boundary or something something crosses, you know, some an area that you're not able to talk about, you have to be very clear about this and bring in your lawyers and bring in other people. So, you know, try not to handle, you know, too much crisis by yourself if you if you if you don't need to. Certainly, If it's a legal issue, then, you know, bring in the experts. Yeah.
Richard Bliss [00:21:38]:
Sometimes when we think crisis, we think the legal. But but you also bring up an interesting point that you can find yourself in a crisis, because so often we try to make everything look perfect. – Yeah. – And understanding that there's a crisis, acknowledging the crisis, and then being a bit transparent about how, as an organization, you handle the crisis. Can I see be as as go far to building that trust -- Yep? -- with one of my clients had a data breach. They were a security company. They had a data breach. But the CEO, as I had worked with him for a couple of years, we had built his voice to be authentic in social media, both Twitter and LinkedIn. Yes. So when the crisis hit, It was exposed on LinkedIn, and it made the news. But a day later, we were able to take back the narrative because the executive had built up credibility through both the media and the and the industry that he spoke truth. And so he said, look, we had, yeah, we had this problem. Here's what we're doing to fix it. – Yeah. – And so that's what I'd like to ask, that aspect of what you said in the chapter. Is that crisis can be used as a trust building experience on how you handle the crisis.
Dan Nestle [00:22:52]:
Right. You know, lot of that has to do with the way you've already built equity or build trust in with your audiences. And but that is by just doing the fundamentals of relationship building. Be honest. Be honest. To which saying you're gonna do, you have integrity, that the the fundamental building blocks of trust are always there. So when a crisis does hit or when you when you find yourself in a crisis, you at least have a little bit of a cushion. And just like you said, you know, take a breath. People be angry at first perhaps. But if you have the trust in the system, you will eventually be listened to and your -- Yeah. -- that people who trust you will you have to have a little faith here. People who trust you will continue to trust you. Of course, if you've done something egregiously terrible, hey, I can't help. But but if, you know, it's it's it is what it is. But generally speaking, you know -- Right. -- you know, you if you're you're running a hotel and some and some people have have problems with with check-in. People are people being rude at check-in, and they go on social media. You know, That could be problematic. It's it's a crisis. You can handle that because you've already built a lot of trust, or you can be very honest about what you're doing. We've Thank you so much and and speed, to be honest and fast. Thank you very much for your concern. We're gonna look into that. Here's what we've done so far. You know, and keep keep people abreast of what's happening. And even if you don't have the answers, if say you don’t have the answers yet, but you're working on it to the extent that you're able to communicate. And Sometimes there's no real great answer. You just you have to deal with deal with your your -- Deal with the crisis. – It just gets crazy. Yeah.
Richard Bliss [00:24:22]:
And get through it. Yeah. This has been this has been a great conversation. As we wrap up, couple of things. One, I'd like you to one piece of advice maybe that wasn't in the book or that you would give, and then how people can go find more information about you, your podcast, that type of thing. So what would be one thing that you would either something you really liked that came out of that chapter -- Yeah. -- or something that maybe wasn't in the chapter that didn't make it into the final cut?
Dan Nestle [00:24:53]:
Well, obviously, these days, you know, there's been a lot of technology development since the time that we wrote the book. And in the in the book itself, when the one of the points I talk about is Comtech, communications technology, and that is essentially taken the marketing technology stack, plying it to communications. Right? You're still talking about reaching certain audiences and and trying to, you know, convince them of something or persuade them or influence them or whatever. Well, now, of course, with with AI and with the ways that we can now communicate and and and, like, communicate more, I think, with more volume, with more frequency and certainly have a lot of, I guess, a lot of the angst around writing something might be removed because, you know, you now have an easier way to get started with your content, it's it's something that I think is gonna have to factor its way into your technology environment, even in communications. So, you know, I guess where I'm going is that let's look at the tools that are available to us. Let’s look at the ways that we can be better writers and be better communicators, not just marketers, but the whole, you know, how we’re communicating directly with our audiences, with our stakeholders, and door it away from it. We have to we have to engage with that. We have to grasp that. And at the same time though, Communication is a human-to-human thing, so you have an advantage as a person, as a communicator, you have an advantage there that whenever anything's written, anything's for everything ever anything's done with with artificial intelligence, they're gonna need you. They're gonna need you at the end of that of that line to keep the trust. Nobody's ever gonna trust what's coming out of any of the chatbots.
Richard Bliss [00:26:23]:
So, True, Dan, thank you so much for joining me. How can they find more information?
Dan Nestle [00:26:30]:
Yes. That's right. Sorry. You can go to you can go to my LinkedIn profile. It's just LinkedIn slash in slash nestle. You can go to follow me on Twitter at d s nestle or go to my podcast my podcast my podcast website, which is dan nestle dot show. Okay. It's a dan nestle dot show. And, of course, my company is Lixle dot com, and you can feel free to see all of the great things we're doing there.
Richard Bliss [00:27:08]:
I like the fact that it's just LinkedIn slash n slash nestle. Mine's LinkedIn. Yeah. I got slash -- Nope. -- list.
That was the only one I ever got successful in the kind of, you know, early adopter. I'm gonna get nestle game. Because I did try to get nestle dot com course, the Swiss company probably beat me to that. And any number of cyber squatters have beat me to any other in iteration of the vessel, so I kinda gave up on that one. But at least I got it on LinkedIn.
You got it on LinkedIn. Yeah. Your Nestle, my Bliss. It's like, yeah. I think other people are grabbing those names as we don't grab them. Dan, this has been great. I always enjoy our conversations and getting the chance spend some time together. Thanks again for being here.
Been a real pleasure, Richard. Thanks so much.
You've been listening to Digital First Leadership podcast. My guest has been Dan Nestle. We've been talking about the book, The Most Amazing Marketing Book Ever, and Dan wrote chapter 26 on Strategic Communications. We've been talking about that process and the tips he had to share. Hopefully, you found something interesting. I know I always do, and thank you for listening in the support that provided as the show continues to grow. Take care.
Speaker A [00:27:57]:
You've been listening to Digital First Leadership the podcast where you learn to leverage and build your expertise on digital platforms. For more valuable tips on mastering the language of social media, subscribe to our newsletter at blisspointconsult dot com. If you'd like to stay in touch, feel free to add Richard on LinkedIn and join the conversation.