Speaker 1: 

Welcome to Digital-First Leadership, the podcast that focuses on helping leaders and teams understand  how to master the language of social media in today's digital first world. 

Richard Bliss: 

Jeff, thank you for coming back. You had been on the show earlier and we talked a lot about your book  Winning the Six-Figure Sale, and then the 10 step process you would put in place. But in our last episode  where you joined us, we only got through the first three. There was so much good information there.  First of all, for those who are listening, Jeff, introduce yourself. How do you introduce yourself? 

Jeff Goldstein: 

So I help sales leaders in technology win big deals with a proven three step system that I invented while  running the Canadian subsidiaries, some large US tech companies up here in Canada. 

Richard Bliss: 

Now, we talk about those three step system, but in our last episode, we covered three steps of, what  was that, part one? 

Jeff Goldstein: 

Yes, exactly. 

Richard Bliss: 

Yeah. Right. Let's dive a little bit deeper. First of all, just as a highlight, what are those three steps titled  as? 

Jeff Goldstein: 

Right. So the first step is you got to get your deal improved internally. So we talk about some of the  questions I would ask and the review about how do you get your deal improved internally. Then we talk  about budget and authority, need and a timing. So those are the steps at the front end of your deal  around how do you qualify whether your deal is actually good and move forward before you spend a lot  more time on your complex sales campaign. 

Richard Bliss: 

Okay. So once you've got, did my boss approve me making this sales pitch? That's number one. And  number two is, have I identified budget and authority and need and timing? And then we step into the  actual starting of the sales process, right? 

Jeff Goldstein: 

Well, the first three steps are part of the process. In my review process, I have a rapid assessment  review, which is those three steps before you spend a lot of time on a deal, you can't win. Let's make  sure it's qualified. So those three steps are qualification. And then the next steps from four to 10 are all  about a sales strategy review. So once you know the deal is qualified, what's your strategy to go win it?  And that's where I cover off a bunch of steps and I can just list them and then we can dive into a couple  in more detail.

Richard Bliss: 

Absolutely. So let's talk about that. What are those steps now that once you start to work the deal? 

Jeff Goldstein: 

Okay. So in the sales strategy review, I talk about, first thing is, do you have a solution fit? Do you have a  solution to the customer's problem? Then do you have a winning sales strategy other than low price?  We talk about that. Have you got a competitive edge in your deal? We talk about what that is and the  value a coach brings you in that process. Then we talk about value added partnering. If you're not doing  the deal direct, you're a vendor and you got a partner, how do you make sure you and your partner one  plus one equals three, right? Then I talk about customer success before you get your purchase order. 

Jeff Goldstein: 

Then we talk about the steps around negotiating the deal. Sounds straightforward, but there's a lot of  complexity in negotiating deals. And then finally, I talk about next step action planning. How does that  sales rep keep track of all these steps and stakeholders across multiple complex sales campaigns? So all  those steps are things that reps who go through complex sales campaigns have to pay attention to. 

Richard Bliss: 

And I'm guessing, the fact that you've wrote the book and you've actually developed this based on your  experience, I'm guessing that most don't. Most of them don't go through this process. Is that accurate? 

Jeff Goldstein: 

Well, it's interesting, most reps and sales leaders... And I'll talk about leaders for a moment. Most  leaders get their jobs because they're great sales people. Whether they're men or women, they've been  successful in sales. Somebody says, "You know, you'd be a good manager," and they anoint them. Most  sales leaders, and by definition, most sales reps, run their business by instinct and experience, right?  They've got good instincts. They've got experience. Over time, they figure out what works and what  doesn't work. And what I teach is rather than an instinct experience, how about we get intentional and  deliberate around the top 10 steps in a complex sales campaign. And people go intentional and  deliberate. Yeah. 

Jeff Goldstein: 

The example I use, Richard, is you're flying between Boston and New York City. And you're settled into  your seat. You see the pilot get on the plane. He's a silver head pilot. The pilot never jumps into the  cockpit, looks at the co-pilot and goes, "You know, I've been doing this for 25 years. The weather is  good. Let's batten this thing up and let's get going." What does the pilot do? He goes through a manual  checklist to make sure he doesn't miss any steps or stakeholders that could cause him to lose souls. 

Jeff Goldstein: 

Now, sales reps, if you lose too many deals, you don't die, but bad things happen to sales reps and sales  leaders who miss their commit too often. Right? And so the reason I use that example is sales reps and  sales leaders, when they go through the process, they go, "Yeah, those are the top 10 steps." But you  know, I start my program and I ask them, "Can you name the top 10 steps in a complex sales campaign?"  And usually, even experienced sales leaders get five or six. They don't get all 10 and yet they need to do all 10 because if they're not, their competitor likely is. So that's why I go, "Let's just step back. Let's  follow a roadmap. Here are 39 questions through the first step and the second step." 

Jeff Goldstein: 

And sure enough, sales leaders go, "You know, this takes a long time." And I go, "Well, which section  would you like to take out?" 

Richard Bliss: 

Right. 

Jeff Goldstein: 

Look at me like I have two heads. "Well, really, we can't take out anything." I go, "Exactly." So that's why  I walk them through this process. I help sales leaders get intentional and deliberate about helping their  sales teams run complex sales campaign. 

Richard Bliss: 

So as we step through that, where do we start? Because we covered those first three in the last episode.  So what would be next? 

Jeff Goldstein: 

Solution fit, I think, technical people talking to technical bar, they pretty much have that figured out. The  sales rep often has a pre-sales SE, so they can solve the, does this thing fit? But something as simple as a  winning sales strategy, I go, "What's your sales strategy to win other than low price?" Oh. I go, "Who's  the incumbent provider?" You'd be surprised Richard at how many sales rep run a campaign in a new  customer and don't know who the incumbent is. 

Richard Bliss: 

Who they're trying to displace? Who they're trying to... 

Jeff Goldstein: 

Yeah. 

Richard Bliss: 

Right. 

Jeff Goldstein: 

And then I say, who's your primary competitor and what's their strategy to beat you? Oh. And these are  just... if you thought about it long enough, you'd come up with these questions. 

Richard Bliss: 

Those are pretty straightforward questions that you probably would want to ask yourself before you  walked in there. 

Jeff Goldstein:

You would think. But I can't tell you how many reviews I've done with reps. And I said, "Who's your  primary competitor and what's their strategy to beat you." And I get blank stares. We're in the  technology business. If you're a server vendor or a storage vendor, I go, "What part of the customer's  internal strategy is competitive with your solution?" "What do you mean, Jeff?" "What about cloud?"  "Oh, well, we don't sell cloud." "Well, your customer is thinking about SaaS or cloud as an alternative to  on prep, have you considered it?" "No, I haven't." So that 

Richard Bliss: 

If I was to internalize that for our organization, because as you're talking, I'm thinking about what we do,  and one of the things is that, okay, we teach salespeople how to use LinkedIn primarily to become more  effective at opening doors, closing business and that type of thing. So then if I was to ask those  questions, right? Who are my competitors? Well, there's coaches and that type of thing, but it might not  be. And how my winning strategy that doesn't involve price? And it's like, oh. And then that's where  we've developed things like online video courses afterwards where we've developed coaching series,  where there's curriculum, there's all kinds of things that can be added to the process that allows us then  to have that flexibility. 

Richard Bliss: 

So I really like the fact that you're, in essence, codifying this process that we've gone through naturally.  But also I'm hoping, here's what I'm hoping Jeff, that my competitors aren't asking that question  because I've been eating away their business. So this is great. I like this. Okay. What have we got next? 

Jeff Goldstein: 

Well, so the next one is, have you got a competitive edge? We've just been through the winter  Olympics, and the difference between winning and losing in Olympic skiing is thousands of a second. But  in big deal selling, the difference between winning and losing is often not that big. So I talk to people  about what's your competitive edge. And I talk about, do you have access to power? Right. Have you  met the key decision makers in person? And then most importantly, because you can win a big deal  without access to power or meeting the VP of finance in person, I ask who is the coach? Who is your  coach? And are they helping you gain key inside information that you can't get? Are they attending  meetings that you're never going to get invited to? 

Jeff Goldstein: 

And in my experience, Richard, it's very tricky to win a big complex deal without somebody in the inside  telling you how your campaign is resonating. So most people do that informally, but don't think about  consciously developing a coach. 

Richard Bliss: 

So again, as I internalize this as I'm listening and I'm listening for my audience. So in my own business,  our competitive edge would probably be that for over a decade, we've worked closely with senior  leadership in Silicon Valley, from the CEO, senior sales leaders, global sales leaders, VPs of marketing,  they all kind of know me because this is something I've been helping them individually and their  organization. So as I hear you talking, our competitive edge continues to be access to, what'd you say,  the 

Jeff Goldstein:

Access to power. 

Richard Bliss: 

Access to power. 

Jeff Goldstein: 

Yeah. 

Richard Bliss: 

And when it starts at the top, it's very easy. I've had many clients. One time I had a client say, "I don't  even know what you do here. I just know that you hang out with the CEO." Yeah. Okay. I'll take that as  my competitive edge. 

Jeff Goldstein: 

That is a competitive edge Richard. And getting access to power, you have it so you feel comfortable  with it, but getting it if it's a new customer is not that easy. And often in tech sales, the IT director does  not want you going above his head. 

Richard Bliss: 

Yeah. 

Jeff Goldstein: 

"I am making the decision. You work with me." And so access to power is pretty key. But having a coach  that will help you navigate the internal politics and really just telling you whether your grenades are  landing effectively is pretty important. 

Richard Bliss: 

Got it. I like that. 

Jeff Goldstein: 

So that's an important step. Value added partnering. If you're on the vendor side, is the deal registered?  Have you got a written agreement on what each of you is going to do in the deal? Most people don't do  that. When I was VP and the two sales reps, the vendor rep and the partner rep, weren't communicating  

very well, there was miscommunication. This thing would bubble up and I would get an angry call from  the partner principal going, "What the hell? I thought we were registered." And I'd go, "Where's your  deal registration number?" "Well, I don't have one." "Well, I guess we weren't registered." 

Jeff Goldstein: 

And so I just tell reps, once you've agreed to partner, put your agreement into a short email. I'm not  looking for a legal document. A short email, which just identifies what we're both going to do. And  sometimes reps have happy ears. They go have a drink, go have lunch. They hear what they want to  hear. When you put it in writing, even a short email, it takes all the stress out of the system. 

Richard Bliss:

So often in a complex sale, you are not going this alone. And that's what you're identifying here. Right?  And make sure that whoever that you're doing this with, you're aligned in what those expectations.  Because almost never are you in there all by yourself. 

Jeff Goldstein: 

I totally agree. And so partnering with your ecosystem is step seven, value added partnering. How do  you bring value to the customer in the partnership we talk about? The eighth one is one of my favorites.  It's customer success. 

Richard Bliss: 

Okay. 

Jeff Goldstein: 

It seems obvious, but it often isn't. So what customer success means is what is your strategy as a  salesperson to ensure customer success before you get your purchase order. What training is required?  What implementation services? Who's going to do it? Thinking about not just the sale, but how will you  install and support the customer after they've given you their money. And if you haven't thought  through sell, install, support, another IBM acronym, you're going to end up with a customer who's not  very happy out of the gate and who is not going to give you any future business until you solve their  problems. 

Jeff Goldstein: 

And if you deeply discounted your deal, there's no money left to give the customer free training. You're  in trouble right out of the gate. So we talk about customer success. And that's a step most leaders and  most all reps miss. Even though they know how important it is, they just want to worry about it after  their deal rather than before their deal. 

Richard Bliss: 

That's a really valid point. Being able to see that through. And sometimes as a small business, if you're a  small business trying to get these big deals, that means you sometimes have to make an investment in  your own organization to prepare yourself to win that. And it's a bit of a gamble, right? 

Jeff Goldstein: 

Totally. Customers have expectations. And what I try to teach sales people and sales teams around this  is, make sure you know what their expectations are. And by not talking about them doesn't mean they  don't have them. 

Richard Bliss: 

Yeah. 

Jeff Goldstein: 

Right? "I thought you were going to train us." "Well, that wasn't in the contract." "Well, what did you  guys [inaudible 00:14:03]." 

Richard Bliss:

That was implied. And so if you don't think through that for them, they're assuming that you are. If you  don't, then you're going to be caught with a very dissatisfied customer and lack of repeat business. 

Jeff Goldstein: 

Yeah. And think about it. Sales reps do this for a living. They go sell customers all the time. Well,  customers don't buy complex technology solutions all the time. So they haven't thought this all through  and they really expect their sales people, their sales teams who have thought through and be thinking  about their customer's success as part of the selling process. But most people don't. So this is a way for  salespeople to get ahead of this, have happy customers which everybody wants, who will give them  repeat value. So that's one I enjoy. 

Jeff Goldstein: 

The ninth one surprises people. It's negotiating the deal. Right? So that seems pretty straightforward.  Then I say, "So miss sales rep, what's the customer strategy to negotiate with you?" "What do you  mean?" Well, they have professionally trained procurement people whose job is to deal with sales  people. So if you give the IT director your firm and final offer, you've got your best discount from your  boss, you've given it to your IT person, and they go, "Oh, great. We're getting close." The last step is you  got to work with procurement to negotiate the deal. "Well, wait, I thought I was negotiating." "No, that  was with me. I'm happy. Now go make procurement happy." 

Richard Bliss: 

And if I understand it right, they are compensated on how aggressively they can help the company cut  you down. 

Jeff Goldstein: 

They often are. And this is where having a coach is so valuable. So I would tell the rep, "Go have a chat  with your coach and have them explain to you what their procurement strategy is." Well, first, the IT guy  wants to get, or gal wants to get the best price. Then it goes into procurement. They're bonused on how  much discount they can get off the deal. And then it goes to the final VP for a rubber stamp. If you don't  understand those three steps, you blow it all on the first step. You've got nothing left and you have a  very difficult negotiation, both with your customer and internally, because your boss says, "Hey, I  thought you just asked me for discount. That's all I have. Go make it work." And now you're stuck. 

Jeff Goldstein: 

So I just encourage reps in that step to think through what is the negotiation going to get like, and they  need to do it as they architect their deal. Now, maybe not at the very beginning, but before they get too  far along and give away the form, they should anticipate what's coming. And most salespeople don't.  And then they get some... Especially with a brand new customer, they've never been through it. So some  reps say to me, "Well, Jeff, I don't know. It's a new customer." "Well, there's two ways to figure it out.  Ask your coach." "I don't have one." "Go develop one. Anybody else in your ecosystem already sold to  that customer?" 

Richard Bliss: 

Yeah, go talk to them.

Jeff Goldstein: 

Go talk to them. But while it might be different product, the process is likely the same. So they go, "Oh  wow." 

Richard Bliss: 

In our last minute here, what would be number 10? Because we're about out of time. So what was to be  that last one there? 

Jeff Goldstein: 

The next step is how are you keeping track of all the things we just talked about? 

Richard Bliss: 

So what's the short answer? Because that sounds hard. 

Jeff Goldstein: 

Well, the short answer is, are you taking notes through the review? I can't tell you how many reps go  through an hour and you didn't take a single note. So are you taking notes? Identifying action steps.  Who's responsible on your team and when it's due by? And that one simple sheet of here's the action  item that we trapped, here's what I got to go find out, here's who's going to do it, here's when it's due  by, is a way for me as a sales leader to see if the rep left the review with an action plan that's  documented and they can go execute. 

Jeff Goldstein: 

And again, you'd be amazed at how many reps saunter into this one hour review, think of all the stuff  we talked about in 20 minutes. 

Richard Bliss: 

Right. 

Jeff Goldstein: 

The way to keep track of that, plus all the other deals in your head, who don't actually keep track of  action steps and due dates. And that's a way for reps to keep themselves and their teammates  accountable in a sales campaign. 

Richard Bliss: 

Jeff, this has been fantastic information. I've benefited something from it. And I got to believe that our  listening audience has as well. How can they track you down and get some more information about this? 

Jeff Goldstein: 

Visit salesleadersonly.com and go click the link that says "My course." It's right on the top of the  website. It says, "Click here to watch a video." They'll watch a 14 minute video. I've described more  about the process that we just talked about. That can then calendar. They can then schedule a meeting  with me right on the webpage and we can chat and see if I can help them.

Richard Bliss: 

That'll work. Jeff, this has been great. Thank you so much for being here. 

Jeff Goldstein: 

Thanks Richard. My pleasure. 

Speaker 1: 

You've been listening to Digital-First Leadership, the podcast where you learn to leverage and build your  expertise on digital platforms. For more valuable tips on mastering the language of social media,  subscribe to our newsletter at blisspointconsult.com. If you'd like to stay in touch, feel free to add  Richard on LinkedIn and join the conversation.