Defining The Isolation Effect

Welcome to the show. You're listening to Digital First Leadership. I'm your host, Richard Bliss, and it's great to have you back again. Speaking of having you back again, I invited a previous guest who I just absolutely find the most fascinating, one of the most fascinating people I've ever met, back to the show. I've invited Nancy Harhut back. Nancy is the author of a book called Using Behavioral Science in Marketing. Drive Customer Action and Loyalty by Prompting Instinctive Responses. Now that's a long title, but I got to tell you, it this is the Bible in my family. My wife reads this book on vacation. My daughter reads, she's on maternity leave. She reads this book. I've read this book, and I got to tell you, it's one of the most interesting, fascinating, and validating subjects I've read in a long time. Nancy, thanks for coming back on the show. Oh my gosh, Richard, thank you for having me. Really appreciate it. Well, we're gonna we're gonna talk about something that you suggested last time and that um that brought us back. And I found it fascinating because of the total implications. Now, help me. Um, some people refer to it as the isolation effect, but uh it comes from uh back in the 30s, right?

Yes, yes, it's the isolation effect or the von Restdorff effect. And it's this idea that um things that stand out get noticed and remembered. And uh, and I think that can be really, really helpful for us as marketers, particularly in the age of AI, where you know, standing out is critical. And if everyone is doing the same thing, and we can, at least we can do more of the same thing these days because of AI, we have access to more tools. We, you know, um we have to find ways that stand out uh that make our we have to find ways to make our marketing stand out. And leveraging or embracing the von Restdorff effect or the isolation effect is a smart way to go.

Okay, let's help the audience understand what we're talking about because the words make sense, but the app practical application. And it makes me think about the game, um, the party game, where you walk out with a tray and it's got uh a spoon and a die and a cup and all of this, and then everybody has to look at it, and then you go up, one person goes out of the room, moves one thing, or changes thing, comes back and says, Okay, what changed? Now we're kind of talking about that same thing, right? That kind of is that if I was to throw up four, I I know what it is. It's Sesame Street. One of these things is not like the other, right?

Why Standing Out Beats More Of The Same

That's what it is. Yeah, it's not that it's like four different objects and one of them moved positions, it's one thing stands out because it's not like the other, exactly. Um, so when you think about subject lines, for example, everyone has a subject line. We need subject lines, right? I mean, we send emails, we put a subject line in, but there are things you can do to your subject line to make your subject line stand out. For example, you can all cap the first word, you can put the first word in brackets, right? Studies show these will give you a 20% lift in opening rate. And the reason is because not everyone is doing it. If everybody's subject line started with an all-capped word, you would stand out by making sure yours didn't, right? So it's it's the thing that stands out. This goes, you know, uh back to our ancient ancestors. They'd kind of get up in the morning, stick their head out of the cave, scan the horizon. And if everything looked the way it did the night before, the day before, um, that was good, right? But if something were different, if something had been removed from the environment or added to the environment, that could pose a threat. And back then, it could be a real life or death threat. And all these years later, we're still hardwired to notice things that are different, that stand out from their surroundings. So, you know, the the inbox for emails is a very simple example, but we can take that and even push it further out with our marketing. We need to stand out, we need to use behavioral science principles differently than everyone else is using them. We need to tell stories differently than everyone else, because that's what's gonna focus people on us, as opposed to every other story out there, every other persuasive technique out there, every other email out there.

Email Subject Lines That Pop

Okay, okay, so this has taken us in several different directions. For example, now I understand now. I understand something. I've been in marketing a long time, uh, as my team says, since the late 1900s, that doesn't make me feel uh positive, but but everybody tells me, everybody when I work with people and I try to talk them out of it. Oh, I gotta have an image. I gotta have an image of my post. I gotta have an image. And I'm like, why? Well, because it's got to stand out. And yet, those images are basically all the same, either AI generated or marketing generated. And when I say marketing generated, I think we know what we're talking about, where the marketing team put together this person climbing a mountain to talk about perseverance, right? And you're like, no, that doesn't stand out. And I think you've even talked about either in the book or your conversations about the that's almost just like a hook, yeah, it's a hook. Yeah, it gets their attention, but it doesn't necessarily keep it, does it?

No, I mean, that's the problem. You know, you hit the nail on the head if, you know, if we're using the same images that everyone else is, it it starts to become wallpaper. It's like we've checked the box, but um, you know, cover up the logo and can you tell me, you know, who this ad is for, who this post is for, you know, who's who's behind it. And very often we can't because it's the you know, the person climbing the mountain and the topic was perseverance, but who, you know, who said it? And um, you know, so sometimes we're better off just not having an image because because everyone else has one, that's what's going to make us stand out. Or we have to find, you know, that unique image that no one else is using, and we find a way to tie it to perseverance, you know, maybe it's a picture of an ant, and you're like, well, what does an ant have to do with perseverance? And then, you know, you start to explain that, well, I don't know much about ants, but uh you start to explain that like an ant will go and retrieve its dead comrade, um, and you know, despite the fact that something killed that dead comrade, but the ant will go and get it and bring it back to the nest, and that's perseverance. And I think that might be true, but I'm not positive. But anyway, you get the idea, right? You know, you find a different way in, and you're like, you know, it's like you tell a story that really no one else can tell, and that's what makes you stand out. You know, and you sure you can have a visual, you cannot have a visual, but what you don't want is the same visual everyone else has because that's not what's gonna be.

Stock Photos, AI Art, And Sameness

When I'm speaking to people, I'll say, you know, I I put up an image and I talk about teamwork, and it's four individuals of diverse ethnicity and gender sitting around a laptop, all smiling and pointing. And as soon as I say that, the audience starts to chuckle and laugh because they they know that image, right? And I said, Nobody's gonna ask me if that's my team. That's not that my team isn't made up of diversity, it's just that that's just a stock eye stock photo. And whether it's a different gender, a different background, a different whatever, it's still just an eye stock photo. And and I'm starting to think, Nancy, the same thing is happening with AI generated images. While they can be unique, the they're still the same.

Does that make sense? Yes, I think that there's kind of a look to them. And um you know, I mean, uh uh some of them are obviously, you know, there are mistakes, and you're like, okay, you know, that the classic sixth finger or whatnot, you know, and I'm okay. Well, that's not real, but but let's assume that we've even controlled for that. There is kind of a a look. And I would imagine if you're really masterful, um, you can start to push yours in a in a direction that's maybe a cut above whatever else is out there. But it's um, it's almost like you said, going back to you know, stock photography, there's lots to choose from, but they all just have that that stock feel to them, you know? And so we can generate something, we can generate, you know, anything that's in our heads, really, but it's still gonna have that that same AI, you know, inauthenticity.

So I t I ask people uh oftentimes when I'm talking about this topic, uh particularly online, when I'm talking about imagery and graphics, and I said, How many of you have watched the movie Fantasia? And some hands go up, and I said, Wait, no, have you watched the entire movie? Right? Not just the Mickey Mouse part where he's walking down and you know, the wizard's apprenticed. No, but the dancing hippos and the flowers and the fair have you and some people are like, You mean there's more in that movie than just the Mickey Mouse scene? I'm like, Yeah, and then that movie won an Oscar, and I'm like, why? Because no one had ever seen that before, right? And yet now, would we sit through and watch that movie? Absolutely not. And so I use this as a point out about AI, especially AI graphics, is that the first couple of times it was like, wow, and now we're like, it's the movie Fantasia. It's like, yeah, okay, you that was pretty spectacular, but I've seen it a thousand times.

Yeah, yeah. The key, the key word there was, you know, there was a time in a you know in a place when it was amazing, but now it's like, yeah, I mean, some of the the videos that we see circulating now on on social, it's like initially it was like, oh my gosh, what is that? I have to click that, I have to watch that. And now, you know, the that I'm feeling it, but I'm seeing other people post. It's like I didn't want to go there anymore. Like, I'm just so tired of having it waste my time, you know, and and take me someplace that's so completely trumped up that it's like what you know, like why did I even bother? Why did I even bother?

Novelty Fatigue And Audience Trust

Yeah, okay, so I want to ask another question. We're off this because I said it was gonna go in several directions. The concept of memory. Okay, now this might be slightly out, but I so there's short-term memory and there's long-term memory, right? Yeah, and one of the things that you talk about is this this concept of us taking shortcuts with our decision making. So here's where I'm going with this. My understanding is short-term memory is almost a chemical situation, that the chemicals are involved, some part of the brain, and after a while, the chemicals kind of go back to what they were doing, and the synapses do their thing, and and it's the memory's gone. Long-term memory is the rewiring of the brain, the synapses laying down pathways, the brain changing. How am I doing? Does it sound fairly sound good? Yeah, yeah. Okay. So here's one of the things that I again teach to people, and that I have experience myself. When you're part of the process of teaching someone something new that stands out, just like you're talking about, it gets laid down oftentimes in a long-term memory. When it's the first time they hear it and it they go, wow, and then they remember it. And my argument is if you're that person, then you get laid down in that track in their brain, along with whatever it was that they learned. And I said that to somebody, a group of people, and somebody shouted, I remember my first grade teacher who taught me this. And one of the things I want to talk about is when you use behavioral science in marketing, if your brand, if your name, if your face is associated with that shortcut, that long-term memory, you physically become part of that person's uh recall process. I don't know. Am I am I off-based here? I don't get to talk to people about these ideas very often.

Memory, Emotion, And Surprise

No, no, you're absolutely right. I mean, we, you know, we take in so much, and our short-term memory is only good for so much. And then it just doesn't get encoded into the long-term memory. In order to make that that leap, certain things have to happen. Um, you know, you mentioned, you know, you said something like, you know, wow, and and that was a great word because when we're surprised, it kind of amplifies our emotions by about 400%. So why do we even care about that? We care because when our emotions are amplified like that, two things happen. We focus on the thing that surprised us, and we're more likely to remember it. So, you know, again, going back to things that are gonna stand out, the things that are gonna stand out are the things that are gonna surprise us, right? Or or or the things that surprise us are gonna be the things that stand out, right? And uh and when something stands out, when it surprises us, it is a it has a better shot of getting encoded into that long-term memory. And everything around it, like you said, goes with it, right? So the the brand that surprised you, the product that surprised you, the person that surprised you, right? It all kind of part and parcel moves in. And that's what you want to do. You know, you want to be the the thing that stands out, you want to be the thing that gets encoded in that long-term memory so that uh people can recall you later when you know it's advantageous to them and to you.

Yeah, I've had people reach out to me saying, Hey, you uh presented a session to our company in 2019, and and I'm like, wow, okay. And they've and they've tracked me down and called me back because uh that thing that I taught stayed with them so strongly. Um the education process is fantastic, now becomes the application process, right? So standing out, the um the von Restdorff, is that how you say it? Von Restor. Yes, Von Restorf effect. So how do you effectively use this in marketing? I mean, truly use it. We talked about hey, kind of stand out, but are there some practical applications on how to do that?

You know, there are, you know, I was talking earlier about um, you know, just like subject lines. That's a very basic, very tactical thing. But if if nobody else is using brackets, use a bracket, right? But there are other ways. Um, you know, let's let's talk a little bit about the von Restorff effect and marrying it to storytelling, because storytelling is very valuable for us in marketing. But, you know, you can tell a story a million different ways. Most of us start at the beginning and and work our way down. You know, I was having this conversation with my friend. I wanted to tell my friend about in, but what if I started the story someplace in the middle? What if I parachute it in? And my first line was, you know, you could see by the look on her face when I told her that, that the rest of the afternoon was not going to go well. I'm starting someplace in the middle of the story, right? But you're like, what's going on? Right? And it starts to pull you in. So are there ways to stand out? Absolutely. You know, you want to, you know, you want to think about the tools that we have in marketing, one of them being storytelling, but we want to use them in different ways, right? We want to serve things up differently. Uh in story, sticking with storytelling for a second, you know, we have stories that only we can tell. Uh, you know, I like to talk about behavioral science. That's what I'm known for. I talk about the reciprocity principle sometimes. That's the idea that when someone, you know, does something for you, you like to return the favor. And so I can talk about that. I can cite studies about that, but so can other people, right? Other people have access to that same, you know, closet, Gemini chat, right?

Not as well as you. Yes, they can.

Applying Von Restorff To Storytelling

But when I talk about it, a lot of times I'll talk about um being on vacation and going up to this wine bar, and I wanted to have a glass of wine, right? It was five o'clock in the afternoon. I wanted a glass of red wine, and I look at the menu and I don't recognize a single glass of red. I don't just none of the names sound familiar. Now I'm not, you know, I'm not a wine snob. I just know I like red wine. I know certain ones that I like, but literally there's nothing. So I figured, well, that's the bartender. You know, hey, what would you recommend? So he recommends the most expensive glass. And I look at it and I think, I wouldn't spend that on a bottle, you know, you want me to spend that on a glass. So I said, you know what, I'm sure it's good. I asked for your recommendation, I'm sure it's good, but you know, what's a little bit more affordable? I'd like something that um that is good, but that's not gonna break the bank. You know, I like uh, you know, a leathery red, right? So he's like, gotcha. Okay, I would recommend blah, blah, blah. I glance at the menu. I said, Yeah, you know, it looked like it was in my price range. I was like, fine, I'm gonna, yeah, that sounds great. Thank you very much. Bartender comes back with two glasses.

Oh my gosh.

Little bit in each, not a full glass, but you know, a little bit in each. And he said, you know, um, here, I figured you might want to try both of them. And I didn't ask to try both of them. In fact, I had specifically, Richard said to him, No, no, no, that one is way more, you know, it's out of my budget. I'm just not gonna spend that, you know. Well, I tasted two, they both taste good. The one that he recommended was, in fact, better. And I, you know, I thought to myself, Nancy, you're on vacation. You can afford it, buy the more expensive one. And I did, and I enjoyed it. And I got back to my hotel room that night and I realized exactly what happened, right? I didn't ask for the samples, he brought the samples. And then I felt I should return the favor and buy the more expensive one. Did all of that happen in my head consciously? No. I in, you know, what I was thinking was, you know what, splurge a little. You can afford it, you're on vacation. Back in the room when I was thinking about it, I'm like, I see what happened. So that's a story that only I can tell, right? You can't, your chat can't find out for you. You can't, you know, that's a story that only I can tell. And that's what helps make your marketing stand out, you know, when you kind of you find those things that no one else out there can can mention and you make them work.

The Wine Bar Story And Reciprocity

You're a natural storyteller. I'm a natural storyteller. It comes easy to us to tell those stories. And for storytellers, it's easy because we're always looking for the story, right? If I open my door, my brain is looking for the story. It always is, as is yours. Now, here's the challenge for people who aren't natural storytellers, who don't have that muscle memory, that practice, it becomes a little harder. And so I'm going to follow up with some practical advice for our listening audience based on what you just said, because you mentioned AI. And so many people are using AI today to write their content, whether they're writing on LinkedIn, whether they're writing an S, or whatever it is that they're creating. And so one of the practical advices I give to reinforce what you just said is look, have, in my case, I usually have Chat GPT pump something out. Now, ChatGPT is very clinical, it's very and it overdoes it. And I then hand it to Claude. And Claude's much more prose-driven and storytelling driven. But now I'm not done because now I've got the two of them. I don't tell that I tell them that I'm got them dating. And now I ask Claude to interview me. Take the topic we've just written, and I now want you to interview me about each of the points so that I can add my own story, my own voice, my own idea, my own insight. And so it does. And I said, and ask me one at a time, because it'll oftentimes it'll pump out a button. Got ADHD, just one at a time. And it asks me each question, I answer it, and then it goes back and rewrites my idea that I originally started with that's been shaped by AI, that now has my personal insight and stories embedded. And you're right, there's no way any AI engine could have pulled that story, your vacation, my experience down at the UPS store, whatever it might be, can't be captured by the AI, but we can give it the opportunity for it to pull the story from us for those who aren't as skilled at storytelling.

I love it. I absolutely love it because I think you're right. I think some people are like, oh my gosh, I have to tell the story. I don't, and now you have to now you're telling me I should tell the story differently than everyone else. I don't know what to do. That's such a fabulous example. Um, because you're the end result is going to be two things. It's going to be uniquely you, and it's going to be something that you'll feel confident using because the guardrails are there, right? You had chat work on it, you had Claude work on it, you know, you kind of uh you polished it up so you don't have to worry you're doing it wrong, but you also don't have to worry that you're doing it the way everyone else is doing it because it's it's uniquely you. I love that.

Yeah. And it's worth it. That that's the goal here to remove those friction points a lot that people are struggling with when it comes to, well, I don't know what to say. Because the other one that you, and we'll wrap up with this, the storytelling. When I talk about LinkedIn and your about section, I see people start off their LinkedIn about section with a what I call a once upon a time story. Once upon a time, when I was five years old, I decided to go into marketing. And I'm like, uh, folks, nobody cares. And especially if you're trying to convey them that you have experience and you're going to start with your five-year-old or teenage experience or college experience. And but people just think that's what they're supposed to say, you know, 20 plus years in the industry. And it's like, no, that actually isn't doing what you think it's doing. And instead, I try to get them to talk about today what does that experience mean for your clients today? And then you can tell them the once upon a time part way down at the bottom when uh they get there. So if you feel you really need to, huh? Yeah, let's keep that story focused on the present. Hey, Nancy, you coming back for uh these 20 minutes has been awesome. Um, and I like I said, I could talk, I could talk to you all day long.

A Practical AI Workflow For Voice

Feeling is mutual, sir. The feeling is mutual. So where do you sell?

Where can people find you?

Uh they can find me on LinkedIn. They can find me on LinkedIn, uh, they can find me on Facebook, they can find me on uh X and Threads, um, and they can find me at uh HBT Marketing. Um, our website is HPTmktg.com, and we've got a lot of um articles and interviews published there, a lot of good information. So uh I'd love to hear from any of your listeners. Feel free to to reach out on social and reach out um via email, but would love to hear from anyone.

That'll be awesome. Nancy, thank you again for joining me.

Thank you for having me.

You've been listening to the Digital First Leadership Podcast. Now, my guests always have something interesting to say, but I gotta say, none of them are as interesting as Nancy, and it's been great to have her back. Thanks for listening. And if you have any questions, please reach out. Uh, I do appreciate those who have been uh reaching out. And Nancy, we'd love to hear from you as well. So, everybody, take care.